Curse

jray14 · Mar 29, 2011, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuD

1. Has already been done. You can exchange you copper coins for silver & gold ones there. There is a rune trader in each of the 3 different campaign areas.

I never seem to warp in anywhere near the Z guys. Yep I'm lazy, but I do zquesting so often that I like to take 2 seconds rather than 15 to find them each time

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuD

Not exactly sure what youre getting at in #2...loot scaling removed?

As other posters have surmised, I'm implying better loot when playing with humans than when playing with the same number of H/H. Also higher zcoin/cash/xp payout for grouping with humans. I.e., make my pursuit of shiny things MORE efficient in the company of humans rather than LESS as it is now.

Rites · Mar 29, 2011, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by jray14

Yep I'm lazy,

that seems to be the issue with alot of players

Xiaquin · Mar 29, 2011, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

It's not right to support the encouragement of hero'ing either then.

There's no encouragement or extra reward to using heroes, they're completely optional and cause more stress to the player. Technically there's every reason to PuG, realistically there's every reason not to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jray14

As other posters have surmised, I'm implying better loot when playing with humans than when playing with the same number of H/H. Also higher zcoin/cash/xp payout for grouping with humans. I.e., make my pursuit of shiny things MORE efficient in the company of humans rather than LESS as it is now.

Your pursuit, in spite of inefficiency, is not centered around rewards, it's entirely around the inefficiency, ignorance and sometimes willful stupidity of random players. Increasing the rewards for enduring this doesn't improve efficiency, it just gives you a bigger cookie for putting up with it. /notsigned.

Gabs88 · Mar 29, 2011, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

There's no encouragement or extra reward to using heroes, they're completely optional and cause more stress to the player.

You know, if I could talk to both heroes and players while playing. I'd be shouting one heck of a lot more at players then heroes. The worst thing heroes ever seem to do is get stuck and stop doing anything. They dont bring silly builds and they never play really bad.

None of those are true for puggies

Horace Slughorn · Mar 29, 2011, 05:58 PM // 17:58

I love how most people on here think they are way better than other players in this game (pugs)

hint: you aren't

Miteshu · Mar 29, 2011, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Don't jinx it!

I completed FoW and DoA for the first time and I felt like a pro amongst mere mortals.

The problem with Embark Beach is, it isn't assessable enough. Although the Merchant and the Xunlai is close to each other.

Although you can call me lazy, it is easier to map travel than speaking to an agent, due to many obstacles like the cloth fence, high cliffs, stalls, npc, and such. Plus the spawning point is randomized. I don't want to be spawned next to the Norn.

The Travel agent amongst other travel agents is still too far. Making map traveling much more easier.

If the travel agent was next to each other, and every time I come back to Embark Beach, I should expect to stay in front of the travel agent and Zenchu.

This problem could easily be fixed if Embark Beach was just the ship in Embark Beach itself.

Another thing to add is instead of teleporting to the location, entering the mission could be done by talking to the traveler agent. Making Embark Beach a lot more useful.

Anyone saying Heroes are the reason is half true, but I don't even talk to the travel agent to map me anywhere.

pingu666 · Mar 29, 2011, 11:27 PM // 23:27

shrinking the size would help, of the actual npcs, and make it so you dont get stuck on EVERYTHING when you run to storage/merchant
why are newer towns so bad for that?

heros can sometimes play like complete asses too, ive had monks with a 30e+, full set of spells and not cast, or be very lazy. nothing particulary wrong with the build. I normaly use woh hybrid from pvx as they use that pretty well

Xiaquin · Mar 30, 2011, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabs88

You know, if I could talk to both heroes and players while playing. I'd be shouting one heck of a lot more at players then heroes. The worst thing heroes ever seem to do is get stuck and stop doing anything. They dont bring silly builds and they never play really bad.

None of those are true for puggies

I was implying the actual work it takes to put into a party. For heroes, you need to understand other professions, possess gear and purchase upgrades. Then, there's flagging. You've surely experienced or seen a balled-up group of heroes go down instantly to AoE. With a PuG, everyone is managing themselves. Players are also more intelligent with skills, such as Protective Spirit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horace Slughorn

I love how most people on here think they are way better than other players in this game (pugs)

hint: you aren't

There's more to being a good player than skill, such as versatility, understanding of all professions and enemies, personality, etc.

Mists · Mar 30, 2011, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

With a PuG, everyone is managing themselves. Players are also more intelligent with skills, such as Protective Spirit.

Your statement is flawed. You assume all players are competent.

Kirzath · Mar 30, 2011, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

With a PuG, everyone is managing themselves. Players are also more intelligent with skills, such as Protective Spirit.

I'll also add that, because everyone's running their own builds, there is zero synergy, so PUGs will always be inferior to proper team builds, which is made easy with heroes.

Xiaquin · Mar 30, 2011, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirzath

I'll also add that, because everyone's running their own builds, there is zero synergy, so PUGs will always be inferior to proper team builds, which is made easy with heroes.

Synergy is one thing, management is another.

@Mists AI isn't, either. There are trade-offs.

As someone said earlier, if I wasn't already Legendary Guardian I'd be more interested in PuGs. I've pretty much accomplished what I set out to do and no longer need them. For those that do, there is a place. I wish it came earlier, but the same could be said of many an update.

Mireles · Mar 30, 2011, 06:01 AM // 06:01

Where are people getting this insane idea that ALL people that PuG are totally clueless....people i have gone threw with so far on my first 10 titles to my 2nd gwaam have been fairly competent...

people need to get over themselves... there is more than one way to do things in this game...

Rites · Mar 30, 2011, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mireles

Where are people getting this insane idea that ALL people that PuG are totally clueless....people i have gone threw with so far on my first 10 titles to my 2nd gwaam have been fairly competent...

people need to get over themselves... there is more than one way to do things in this game...

not all PUGs are clueless, there have been a few (in my limited PUGging) that i would say were quite decent.

but learning and understanding hero/hench AI was much easier for the way i play than trying to understand why player 3 and player 4 are using certain skills on mob A but are completely ignoring the boss

besides, i dont like being in an outpost for longer than necessary to dump my drops and figure out where i wanna go next. with H/H they are ready when i wanna leave and i dont get messages saying AFK for potty break, or AFK going for a smoke

vader · Mar 30, 2011, 04:09 PM // 16:09

I think part of the problem with Embark Beach is that there are two places to pick up Z-Missions and Z-Bounties. Embark Beach and GTOB. Embark Beach doesn't have the PvP Z Quest (at least I don't think it does). Maybe the Z-Missions and Z-Bounties should be removed from GTOB and put exclusively in Embark Beach like the Z-Vanquish is. Its not a perfect solution but I think it would probably push a few more people there.

Avatar of Healing · Mar 30, 2011, 04:18 PM // 16:18

I agree w/ vader. I just go to GtoB to get the pve Zquests because thats where i've been going since Zquesting came out. When i go to embark to get the vanquish i always remember i could have just got the other pve Zquests there too and saved myself a zone. oh well.

Yawgmoth · Mar 31, 2011, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Practically EB was not needed at all as players could have just used GToB (for example international districts) for party forming if only they knew about it - information is vital - and if Anet cared to fix the travel issues (I expected something much better as a fix than those NPC's but if it's just that then they could just as well have been put in GToB).

If Embark Beach was about convenience then they failed miserably at it. It's sooo FAR from being convenient. A huge outpost with really awkward pathing/navigation and crucial NPC's spread all over it and the travel through NPCs is just as bothersome as splitting the party, maptravelling and rejoining at destination location. Very poor design overall.

Still it's nothing compared to the biggest problem - the imba solo power that came with 7 heroes, exactly as predicted. As much as I've enjoyed PuGging everything I could before, now I just want things done, and 7 heroes tear through all PvE faster than even forming a PuG takes...

jray14 · Mar 31, 2011, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Yeah, I agree that the pathing in EB is horrible. I can't go from NPC A to NPC B without getting body-blocked. Not quite as bad as Locked Chests when they body-block a quest NPC, but still frustrating. So my Assassin can shadow step 20 feet and fire off a chain of 3 attacks in less than 2 seconds but can't find his way around a signpost. *sigh*

Lasai · Mar 31, 2011, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

Practically EB was not needed at all as players could have just used GToB (

For a new player in Proph there are 7 very long, tedious and somewhat confusing missions, for a New Player, with no access to boat travel or GTOB as well as no access to heroes.

While Embark may be underutilized for this, it is a way for players to try and find groups that may not exist in the outposts they are running their missions from.

It is not just a place for jaded old endgame players and z-quests. Whether it works or not remains for the players. At least an attempt was made to give players doing the game for the first time an avenue to find more people than trying to form a group from someplace like Borliss Pass, for instance.

In all games that have been out for a while there is a problem with the bulk of the players being high level. New players dribbling in to the game do NOT find the group opportunities that veteran players found when a majority of players were doing the same content. The "good old days" of grouping were more a matter of a large population being at roughly the same place and level.

Games like EQ2 have chosen to revamp low level zones, introduce linear solo questlines, and bypass the need to do low level group instances to allow people to level up to where the bulk of the groups are available. As a result, some of the best dungeons and group instances in that game are abandoned now.

There is no magic bullet to fix the problem. Embark is at least a possible solution, if not perfect or utilized as such.

enter_the_zone · Mar 31, 2011, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horace Slughorn

I love how most people on here think they are way better than other players in this game (pugs)

hint: you aren't

Oh, it's not that we're better than them, it's just that people are always more tolerant of their own flaws. Not that I have any flaws, of course

Yawgmoth · Mar 31, 2011, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasai

For a new player in Proph there are 7 very long, tedious and somewhat confusing missions, for a New Player, with no access to boat travel or GTOB as well as no access to heroes.

While Embark may be underutilized for this, it is a way for players to try and find groups that may not exist in the outposts they are running their missions from.

Those players beed EB the least - the only logical place to meet players wanting to do just that particular early normal mode mission is that mission's outpost. When there's no branching but following a linear storyline EB can't help, except for the very rare occassion where a player who already did this mission can join and do it again.

The main usefullness of such a central meeting place would be for players who have many things to do and don't need to them in a particular order - this applies mainly to players working on maxing some titles or filling books. For example when a player needs like 10 Canthan HM missions for his title he shouldn't be jumping all the mission's outposts but go to the central meeting spot and look for others also interested in getting Canthan Guardian.

But the power of 7 heroes invalidates that, a character interested in working on HM titles should have them ready to pwn, and that's far far easier AND faster than taking time to form pugs.

So I got a thought, maybe it's our underdeveloped alts - I think most of us have some characters who don't yet have all the PvE skills and a setup of 7 lvl20 heroes ready to pwn - maybe it's them who could use some pugging.

But then I thought, why would I need to do any content that would make use of a pug on a yet underdeveloped character? That character should most likely be doing NM storylines to get to places, get heroes and get them to lv20, and get PvE skills/titles powering them up...
Oh, maybe the last part, working on EotN rep titles (by ZM/ZB and filling books) on alts is something worth pugging for.
Will try later and see.